Transcript: VNN Oklahoma's full conversation with new Tulsa Mayor Monroe Nichols

In an Indigenous-focused Q&A session, VNN Oklahoma’s Trista Vaughn (United Keetoowah Band, Hualapai, and Chickasaw) asks newly inaugurated Tulsa Mayor Monroe Nichols about jurisdictional issues, public Native American spaces, and plans for Indigenous prosperity.

Trista Vaughn: My name is Trista Vaughn, and I am a journalist for Verified News Oklahoma. Thank you so much for your time doing this Q&A with us.

Mayor Monroe Nichols: Absolutely.

Trista Vaughn: And I want to be respectful of your time. So, let's just get on into it.

Mayor Monroe Nichols: Sure. Let's do it.

Trista Vaughn: All right. So it's been over a month and a half since you've been sworn in. How is everything going for you? 

Mayor Monroe Nichols: I think everything's going good. I mean, we came in with a really bold vision for the future of the city. The first part of starting to put that plan in action is to get a team in place in the mayor's office, begin to work with city employees across the entire organization, and then thinking about our partnerships outside of the city. So far, we've not fully staffed the mayor's office, but mostly staffed in the mayor's office, spent the time with the 3,500 employees here, at least the folks who lead those different divisions. And particularly given this interview, we've already had the chiefs of the Cherokee, Osage and Muscogee Creek Nation in really talking about very substantive things. So, we're really off to an aggressive start, which I'm really excited about.

Trista Vaughn: Which I know you guys have Amanda Swope coming in at the end of the month, right? 

Mayor Monroe Nichols: Yeah. That's right.

Trista Vaughn: Yeah.

Mayor Monroe Nichols: The 29th, I think that's 29th. Yeah.

Trista Vaughn: So what kind of led up to having her on your team? 

Mayor Monroe Nichols: Yeah, the first thing that I ever announced in the campaign back in 23, so this is like October, September 23, was our approach to tribal relations. And announced way back then, the first thing I ever announced in the campaign was that I would appoint a director of tribal policy and partnerships. I've been at the Capitol for eight years, almost eight years at that point, five of those eight years have been a time where the state and tribes have been locked in numerous legal battles. The city was even part of some of those legal battles.

Mayor Monroe Nichols: And for me, given where we sit is Tulsa, I thought we have to have a different tone that's not just about respect, but about how we're going to partner and work together to govern what is a place where three reservations collide. And so Amanda specifically is someone that I've known since before she was elected, maybe even before I was elected, but certainly before she was elected. She'd been an employee of the Creek Nation. She obviously has been a proud citizen of Creek Nation.

Mayor Monroe Nichols: I think she is Osage, I think. She's of Osage descent as well. And so, as I thought about somebody who had the legislative experience, who had kind of the local context, great relationships with the chiefs. Her mom was a city councilor. She's a pretty unique individual when it comes to who can lead in this way for the first time in our city's history.

Trista Vaughn: So a very qualified person.

Mayor Monroe Nichols: You can't find anybody better than that.

Trista Vaughn: You really can't, though. All righty. So we're going to move on to the next question. What is going to happen to the jurisdictional lawsuit with Muscogee Nation? 

Mayor Monroe Nichols: Yeah, we're actually in the middle of that right now. There was an opinion issued that actually said the city had jurisdiction in some very specific cases. This is the O'Brien case. What we did in response to O'Brien is what actually was the impetus to have that meeting with the chiefs. With me, I really want to make sure we are on the side of tribal sovereignty in every way possible, and then also thinking about, how do we make sure this is a safe, safe city? And so what we have done is we've created a structure in which we're going to refer those cases to whatever tribal nation that offense was. If it's a municipal offense, where that offense happened, and refer those to those tribal courts as a process going forward.

Mayor Monroe Nichols: So whether there's an opinion that says we could exercise some sort of jurisdictional rights to do something, our goal is to work with tribes, refer those to those courts, and then if we find some time where the tribe's like, hey, it really be better for us if you guys took that, that's their decision to make. And so part of that is, again, building this partnership, and it's different and difficult at times because it's not... Nobody's used to that yet, but I think we will become an example of how you do that, certainly respecting the sovereignty of a tribe, but also making sure you can create a system of really strong public safety standards in a city like Tulsa.

Trista Vaughn: Cool. Well, thank you for answering that. So you recently said you wanted to make Tulsa the gateway to Indian country. Is there some kind of infrastructure or physical space for Native American heritage in the works to support that? 

Mayor Monroe Nichols: Yeah, so the plan is to actually get us an Indian center here.

Trista Vaughn: Really? 

Mayor Monroe Nichols: Yeah.

Trista Vaughn: So just all tribes are welcome for that, too?

Mayor Monroe Nichols: Yeah. I mean, the idea is that you have a place where all tribes are going. So, whether you are coming to get some sort of a service. I know the Cherokees, not long ago at the Greenwood Cultural center, folks looking for the tribal IDs and stuff like that.That in a place where we have a lot of tribal citizens, a lot of different places, that that's an easy place to go. Cultural enrichment, those types of things. It's a place where it is clear that being the gateway of Indian (Country), you can see it, it's palpable, and there's a place for folks to go.

Mayor Monroe Nichols: And I think it being open to all tribes is really important. It's really about celebrating Native culture across the board because we are, I think of that distinction of being the largest city in the country that's all Indian reservation. We have to make sure that not only we are saying that, oh, this is important to us, people can see it and we're showing it every day. That's something we'll take on. We'll take up, maybe not immediately, but it is actually something that I'm very much committed to. And I would imagine that our tribal partners, both here, here in Tulsa, but also across the state and around the country, would be really interested in maybe helping us and partnering with us to get it done.

Trista Vaughn: For sure. Because even, like, there's just so many Native people in Tulsa, and even if you start from Tulsa and go 100 miles out, make a whole circle, it's the largest Native population in Oklahoma, so.

Mayor Monroe Nichols: That's right. That's right.

Trista Vaughn: Cool. All righty. Next question. Are you familiar with the Resilient Tulsa initiative? 

Mayor Monroe Nichols: I am, actually. And let's see. Today, we're going to have some new moves on the staff with the folks who have been here, who have been key to Resilient Tulsa. There's going to be some news about it.

Trista Vaughn: Okay. So, this initiative is all about equity and collaboration. It talks about historical injustice, but nothing about Allotment Era crimes. Do you have any plans to reckon with Tulsa's unjust Indigenous history? If so, what are they? 

Mayor Monroe Nichols: Yeah, I'm not sure very specific in that way. But what we have talked about here, talking about the Indian center and what it means to be the gateway to Indian Country, what that means for Native entrepreneurs, what it means for us coming to terms with all of the historical trauma of this place. So part of our rich history is actually born in a lot of very traumatic things that got us here. Right? 

Mayor Monroe Nichols: So, like, everything from the Creek folks getting here to the Council Oak Tree in 1836, and then everything that would happen after that to, even as I look north here, and to look what once was the Greenwood District and what happened with that, the booms and the bust of the economic trauma over the years, I think we have a great opportunity to marshal some of that. Can we right every wrong in the past? Like, probably not. And that's a really unfortunate thing. I don't know if you happen to read the Department of Justice investigative report that came out, just restates all these really horrible things that happened.

Mayor Monroe Nichols: All these things happened at the hands of these people, but we can't do anything about it. So I think it's incumbent on us not necessarily to go back and say, how do we right every wrong, one for one, but how do we overall promote a sense of equity and opportunity that the great beneficiaries of it are in large part the folks whose ancestors were robbed of it. Right? 

Trista Vaughn: Right.

Mayor Monroe Nichols: How do you create that? And that's something we're very much committed to, not just in words, actually. When I talk about the things as it relates to Indian Country, a lot of that's economic mobility. When we talk about our response to what happened here on Greenwood, it's about economic mobility, right? And so, that's the best way, I think, we can begin to right some of those wrongs is to make sure that what was robbed and from the standpoint of opportunity for so long, that we at least right those wrongs on a go forward basis.

Trista Vaughn: Okay, awesome. And then I have one more question. Is there anything else you would like to say about your plans for Indigenous industry and partnerships in Tulsa? 

Mayor Monroe Nichols: For me, I think it's something that you have to think about with everything that we do, right? How's it reflected in everything that we do at the city? Obviously, we know we got some legal, technical challenges that we have to handle, but to me, those are some of the easier things for us to do. Then the question becomes like, how do you really make this a place where Native families can thrive? 

Trista Vaughn: Right.

Mayor Monroe Nichols: Because what we know, the outcomes for Native families are not where we would want them to be. Like, where are we missing the mark on that? And then you jump past that, you're like, well, how is this a place where, if you're a Native young person who is either going to college, just got out of college looking for the next opportunity, how do you start to see Tulsa as a place where that opportunity exists? I think oftentimes this is not a criticism of a person really, but I think it's been some parts of our attitude and our relationship with tribes is that, oh, they have a lot of money. We go ask them for things, to sponsor something...

Trista Vaughn: Economic.

Mayor Monroe Nichols: But there's nothing that happens in return, right? 

Trista Vaughn: Yes.

Mayor Monroe Nichols: I think, for me, I think about the return. The return that you feel not just if you're a tribal leader, but you're a tribal citizen.

Trista Vaughn: Right.

Mayor Monroe Nichols: That this is a place where you're like, hey, the best place in the country for me in a Native family or as a young person, or even somebody who's mid-career who lives somewhere else right now, that Tulsa is the place for me. And so I think we have to live that throughout. I think it's the reason why Representative Swope will have her job. Jack Blair, city attorney. He's a Cherokee Nation citizen. Mike Miller, who is the city administrator, is actually a Cherokee Nation citizen. So we have tribal citizens that are working here. I mean, Amanda has a very focused job.

Trista Vaughn: Yeah.

Mayor Monroe Nichols: Our communications director. Michelle Brooks. Michelle Brooks. I've known her for a long time. Michelle Brooks is a tribal citizen. And so, the Native people and Native culture is very much alive here at the city of Tulsa. So we have to make sure it's reflected in everything that we do now.

Trista Vaughn: And you've, like, surrounded yourself with Native people too. You know what I mean? That have done stuff for the community too.

Mayor Monroe Nichols: Yeah, I mean, I think it's really interesting, right? I didn't go out and say, hey, I gotta find the Native people. But I mean, if you think about people who are doing amazing things in this community, you find tribal citizens who are doing great things for this community every single day of the week. And so making sure that we elevate that as an organization, as a community, I think is the work we have out in front of us.

Trista Vaughn: Well, awesome. Well, again, thank you so much for your time, and I greatly appreciate it.

Mayor Monroe Nichols: Sure. Absolutely. Absolutely.

This interview has been lightly edited for clarity and concision.