Listen Frontier: ‘We’ve lost five years’: Cherokee Chief says next governor must rebuild tribal relations

Photo Credit: Dylan GoForth/The Frontier

(OKLAHOMA) Chuck Hoskin Jr. has served as Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation since 2019, leading the tribe through a period of historic legal shifts, economic investment, and political tension. 

Read this story on The Frontier here.

At the center of much of it is McGirt v. Oklahoma, the landmark 2020 U.S. Supreme Court decision that affirmed much of eastern Oklahoma remains tribal land. That ruling reshaped how justice is administered in Indian Country and how tribal sovereignty is understood and exercised today.

The McGirt decision created confusion over criminal jurisdiction in parts of eastern Oklahoma, with state courts losing authority over many cases involving Native Americans. That led to some prosecutions being dismissed and not always refiled by federal or tribal authorities. This shift sparked concerns about gaps in enforcement and inconsistent handling of everyday criminal matters.

In an interview with The Frontier, Hoskin Jr. pushed back on critics who claim the McGirt decision led to “legal chaos.” He also reflected on the strained relationship between tribal nations and Gov. Kevin Stitt, discussed how he hopes the next governor will mend that relationship, and talked about how the Cherokee Nation is working to lift long-neglected communities while simultaneously facing the challenges that come with increased jurisdictional authority.

The following is a condensed version of the full interview with Cherokee Nation Principal Chief Chuck Hoskin Jr. For the full interview, listen to our podcast.

The Frontier: What has been the biggest impact of the McGirt decision for the Cherokee Nation, both legally and culturally?

Hoskin Jr.: I think the biggest impact has been meeting the moment. And the moment takes us back to before anyone ever heard of the state of Oklahoma. It takes us back to that latter part of the 19th century, where we were exercising governmental functions, including law enforcement, including law and justice. And so being called upon to do that again in the 21st Century is a tremendous responsibility for all Cherokee leaders and citizens and the staff that we have … I think we are succeeding,but it is a daily challenge, for sure.

The Frontier: Critics, including Gov. Kevin Stitt, have painted McGirt as chaotic or unmanageable. How do you respond to those narratives?

Hoskin Jr.: Well, I think the claims don’t hold water. Now, Gov. Stitt said this on repeat, and he said it really to the extreme, and he almost said it reflexively, at least for a period of years, any time McGirt was mentioned. I think it started to not have the ring of truth for people who live, work or travel through any of the communities, certainly in the Cherokee Nation reservation. 

My initial response is that … the facts really don’t back it up. Now, no transition of this nature is going to be without challenges or issues. I mean, people should remember that the Cherokee Nation and the other five tribes had to scale up in really lightning speed. We had to do in a period of months what the state of Oklahoma had more than a century to do. It’s an enormous task to go from policing 3% of 7,000 square miles … to 100% of 7,000 square miles. And so I think my response to the critics is to look at the facts … there is not chaos in communities. In fact, there’s a great deal of cooperation.

The Frontier: There’s going to be a new governor next year. A lot of these issues, McGirt, the gaming compact, etc., arose during Kevin Stitt’s tenure as governor. From your perspective, what is the relationship like between the Cherokee Nation and Governor Stitt? And what would you like to see when there is a new governor?

Hoskin Jr.: Well, the new governor, frankly, can only improve things in terms of the relationship. We have lost something that is of immeasurable value, and that’s the goodwill between the leader of the state and the leader of the sovereign tribes that happen to be within the state. That is a loss that’s immeasurable. But then you can also think about: Were there missed opportunities for cooperation and collaboration? Surely there were. I’ll always credit Governor Stitt with this. He genuinely believes that there is not a role for sovereign Indian nations in the 21st century. He thinks that it’s incompatible with the state. He says it, he means it. He doesn’t hide it. At least we know there’s a straight logic in terms of how he sees the world. It just is fundamentally at odds with how we see the world.

So the next governor can set a different tone … What puts us head and shoulders above the rest (of the states in the country,) is that we’ve got 38 federally recognized tribes, and that’s an opportunity to work together. So the next governor can set the tone, turn down the temperature when there is conflict … and that’ll make all the difference in the world. 

But we’ve lost five years, and you can’t get that time back. You can only hope to commit to making things better in the future, and the next governor is going to have tremendous opportunity. 

The Frontier: What does sovereignty mean to you today? Has its meaning shifted for Cherokee citizens post-McGirt?

Hoskin Jr.: Well, it has shifted in terms of the geographic scope. When I took office in 2019, the world of tribal sovereignty was much different from a geographic standpoint. There was certainly a Cherokee Nation map within which we could invest and operate, but in terms of our governing authority, we understood, particularly from a criminal justice standpoint, it was a patchwork of a very small amount of trust and restricted land. For that now to be all 7,000 square miles is changing the geographic scope. 

And so sovereignty is for a tribal leader today a bit different than it was in 2019 in terms of the obligation side of the ledger … or the obligations that attach to sovereignty – running a criminal justice system and dealing with incarceration, dealing with returning people back into society, and taking care of victims. Those are the things that didn’t occupy the minds of my predecessors or me much in 2019, but every Cherokee chief from here on out will have this central focus of “what can I do? What should I do to make sure we meet our really awesome obligations to govern this reservation from a criminal justice standpoint?” And in this century, it’s going to go further than that. 

I don’t have much time left. I’ll do what I can while I’m here, but future leaders, my successors, will be increasingly dealing with sovereignty from a standpoint about what is our obligation? How do we work with these other sovereigns? How do we co-govern a land that was inhabited by Cherokees and governed before anyone ever heard of the state of Oklahoma? 

The Frontier: What gives you hope right now for the future of the Cherokee Nation?

Hoskin Jr.: What gives me hope for the future is that I see investments we have made in some communities that for a century took it on the chin. And I’m seeing things turn for the better. And investment in healthcare, infrastructure, housing, education, particularly early childhood education, is making the difference. 

It’s not the whole of it. The government can’t solve all the problems of some of these, particularly rural communities or even larger communities that are low-income. People have to remember North Tulsa has some pockets of poverty, and they’re in the Cherokee Nation.

We gotta work on that too. But I’ve seen us make a difference, and I feel like the Cherokee Nation, with the right philosophy, the right leadership, directing the resources in the right way, can make this century a century in which these communities that took it on the chin for the 20th century … I think we can see the best days of those communities ahead.

That means a lot to me. Our people live there. They lived there for generations, and in some of these cases, it’s the last place where our language is spoken. We got to save these communities, but I feel like we can do it. I feel like we are doing it, and so that gives me hope.

For the full interview with Cherokee Nation Principal Chief Chuck Hoskin Jr., listen to our podcast.

The Frontier is a nonprofit newsroom that produces fearless journalism with impact in Oklahoma. Read more at www.readfrontier.org.